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Kartik Sawhney – Living Life With A Vision! By Pramila Komanduri

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Learning Computer Science is not just a passion for Kartik but it is also a means for him to develop technology which will help and empower the blind. He is currently interning with Microsoft in their Redmond, Washington headquarters during the summer break of 2015 and working on improving the functionality of the Narrator (which is a Screen Reader) for Windows 10. His training in Hindustani vocal music found him a spot on a South Asian fusion a cappella group at Stanford, called Raagapella, with whom he has toured the US east coast and performed during AR Rahman’s visit to the US.

Kartik is a very modest and highly motivated young man who credits his tenacity and success to the support of his family and the teachers at the National Association for the Blind school and the Delhi Public School in New Dehli. He has shared glimpses into his childhood, his challenges, his studies at Stanford and his present and future goals in the interview below.

Inerview: 
Question: 
Your entire family is in Delhi and you are the only one who has moved out of it. How does it feel, leaving the joint family and going away?
Answer: 

It’s mixed feelings. Of course, I miss them at times but I also think in terms of the opportunities which are available for me at Stanford. I have a couple of friends from Stanford and it has become like home to me. When you’re at Stanford you have so much on your plate that you don’t have time to think about family and other stuff. We end up calling each other about once in a week.

Question: 
As a child what was your vision of what you wanted to be?
Answer: 

It all started when I was in the 7th or the 8th grade when my vision was to be a Computer Scientist. I had a group of 5 or 6 friends in middle school who were national winners in Olympiads and competitive exams, and we would chat and read books about what would interest us. By the 9th grade, all of us were pretty sure that we wanted to be programmers. We started coding even when programming was not offered as a subject in school. It was fascinating because you can pretty much do whatever you want with Computer Science and make a difference. In the 9th. grade we rewrote our school’s inventory system and the sense of achievement and satisfaction that we got out of it was pretty amazing. Of course, at that time we were also excited about ethical hacking. We had a school alumnus who was amazing at that and we would read his books and go, “Oh my God, this is so interesting!”

I started participating in Olympiads and getting awards and that was very motivating too. I knew that I could be a Computer Scientist if I wanted and by 11th grade I was pretty sure that this is what I wanted to be. At the same time, after seeing the insensitivity that I and other friends with disabilities had to face in India, I felt that I really wanted to develop software that would empower people. So it is basically social advocacy/disability advocacy but not doing it through the regular conventional way of organising movements but using technology about which I was and am passionate.

Question: 
Did any of you participate in ‘ethical hacking’?
Answer: 

We just ended up reading textbooks. It wasn’t until I came to Stanford that I actually practically used all that material which I had read in India and course material from Stanford for an assignment here. The concentration for my Masters will be Computer Internet Web Security. That will cover ethical hacking and how to counter hacking.

Question: 
What did you and your school friends in Delhi do in your spare time?
Answer: 

We would chat about anything we could think of from movies to books. We saw all the Harry Potter movies. I went on school trips, once to Mussoorie and once to Nainital for 2 or 3 days.

Question: 
Was your family comfortable with you going out by yourself with your schoolmates and teachers and staying overnight in another city?
Answer: 

No, they were really hesitant. The first time when I asked them for permission they said,“No”. So I pleaded with them and my friends did a good job of convincing my family. Of course, we had teachers accompanying us. I think these two trips helped convince my family to let me come here (to Stanford). It was a very long process in trying to convince them to let me come here. Initially they said, “No. There is no way that you are going there. You have to change what you want to do. You can become a civil servant or something like that in India but you are not going to Stanford.” I was able to convince them finally that I would be happy only if I was doing what I really wanted to do.

Question: 
When you were growing up who was it inside your family or outside your family who helped you to face any challenges which came up?
Answer: 

I think I have a very supportive family who were encouraging of whatever I did. Even in junior classes there were always hurdles. We just didn’t know how to approach a particular task which other students were doing: something as simple as drawing or colouring something or how I could participate actively in special events. It was all about coming up with alternative methods of doing something and my family was always helpful there. They and the teachers who teach blind students and my teachers at the DPS would go the extra step to ensure that I was also actively participating in the class as in they worked out accommodations for me. I think it was a collaborative effort that really helped me with different strategies to face the hurdles to learning.

Question: 
What were your personal strengths which took you through your challenges?
Answer: 

That’s a really hard one to answer. I think what was within me was a consequence of the support which I received from my family and my teachers. When everyone in school is willing to work with you and not giving up hope that easily, then you also want to work. Firstly, there was a passion in me for Computer Science and for Math and Science in general, which made me stubborn about wanting to take the Science stream even when some of my well-wishers were telling me that I shouldn’t. Secondly, by then, I was aware of the achievements of blind people from around the world. Citing their examples, I was able to argue that if they could succeed in other countries then so could I in India. There are so many blind Computer Scientists in the US. If they could do it, so could I.

Question: 
Were there any situations when you felt that the challenge was too much for you?
Answer: 

That didn’t happen until 11th grade when I took the Science stream. It was really challenging. First of all, none of the books were available in accessible formats. I had to type out about 200-300 pages almost every day which was really time-consuming and required about 3 hours of effort and cutting into my study time.  There were so many diagrams which I could not see.
Here in the States, they have embossers and other technologies that help you to visualize. But, they are expensive for a middle class family like mine to acquire in India. How do you convey an organic chemistry model on the computer without drawing it? Drawing requires the use of a mouse and I cannot use a mouse. We had to come up with our own convention that would enable me to represent a molecule on the computer in a way that even sighted people would be able to understand what I had drawn on the computer. It was basically a subset of the IPAC convention which is a standard organic chemistry convention used around the world.
Nothing would have been possible without my teachers because they were the ones who would help me come up with stuff. We don’t have accessible lab equipment in India. So we used standard lab apparatus and someone would say the readings for me and I would work with that. When we had to work with chemicals, the teacher would not let me participate because he had security concerns. If you look at students in the States, they do everything on their own. They work with the most hazardous of chemicals. In that sense, in India, we have a long way to go.

Question: 
Has Braille not been adapted to communicate Mathematical or Scientific symbols?
Answer: 

It has. There is something known as Nemeth Braille that is used in the United States. But, in India, the rule is that blind students are not supposed to study Science and Math after the 8th grade. So no one bothers to teach you that. So, I could not learn Nemeth Braille and I don’t know it even now.

Question: 
When the IIT-JEE authority finally told you that they were not going to provide you with the reader/writer of the quality you wanted what did you feel?
Answer: 

I was shattered, especially because I had been taking coaching in a really good coaching program for the JEE and I had put in a lot of effort. It was a dream which I really wanted to get. I had to type out all of the coaching books. In the coaching centres, every topic has a separate book. If you have 50 topics in Chemistry that is 50 books which you have to type in accessible format. So I was basically typing 150 books each having about 60 pages. They had All India tests every week and I was performing really well and so I was hopeful that I would be able to make it to the IITs if they gave me the accommodations that I was getting at the coaching institute which was someone familiar with Science reading out the test properly to me.

Question: 
I read that the IITs have been in touch with you to make the JEE accessible for the blind.
Answer: 

They are actually doing a pretty good job now. I would say that it still is not ideal but it is better than what they were giving me at that time.

Question: 
Have any of your visually impaired friends qualified for the IITs since you lobbied for the change in rules?
Answer: 

Yes, one person got into IIT Jodhpur.

Question: 
I read that you had help from some NGOs in the lobbying and legal process with IIT-JEE.
Answer: 

There were a bunch of NGOs helping me. Eyeway’s advocacy team was there. Xavier’s Resource Centre for the Visually Challenged (XRCVC), National Association for the Blind in Delhi, and my school were there for me. My school and XRCVC actually helped me get permission from CBSE to opt for the Science stream in the 11th grade. That was achieved in 9 months. Prior to that I would not have been allowed to study Science in the 11th and 12th grades.

Question: 
Reading about you others may realise that they need to have a network of supporters to help them.
Answer: 

It is really unfortunate that most people don’t have adequate support in India. I am actually working on making things better. I am working on a startup with some friends in India and from Stanford that would help get Science and Math textbooks converted into accessible format so that a person in India would not have to put in manual effort to prepare them like I did. Some of us in this group are visually impaired and some aren’t. We think of it as a social project. We want to employ people with other disabilities that can do this job.

It is amazing that everyone in the Disabilities department at Stanford University is more than happy to volunteer their training resources and provide training to the new people in my startup. Stanford has contacts with assistive technology resources in Denmark with whom they put me touch.
Right now I am looking at the technical part of it. We are also reaching out to organisations like NSS and NCC in India to see if there are volunteers who will be able to help us with this. We also have to think about money since all of us involved in this are students. Let’s see where this goes.
All the sighted people are from my Stanford friends, while the blind people are in India and either passionate about Science or working towards their BCA degrees or have some technical background.

Question: 
What aspect of Computer Science interests you at Stanford?
Answer: 

I am specializing in 3 tracks. I have already completed the Human Computer Interaction coursework. I am looking at taking Artificial Intelligence and Computer Network Security for my Masters. I am trying to do my Master’s program next year and I hope to complete it within four years. We have what is called the Co-term program. If you have already completed the essential portion of your undergraduate course you can apply for Co-term and study your Masters at the same time as your undergraduate course. So I will be working towards two degrees at the same time.

Question: 
What would you advise other students in India who would like to pursue a degree in engineering?
Answer: 

I think the first thing is that the students need to be really well-informed. This is true for NGOs as well that they have to be up-to-date on what is happening so they can correctly communicate to the students who ask them for help or they should ask the students to check the relevant website. There are special blind schools in India which still maintain that it is not possible for blind students to pursue Science or that it would be a bad decision to do so, because they don’t have teachers for Math and Science as none are available. This needs to stop. Whenever anyone asks me how Science is I never tell them optimistically that it is great or easy or fun. I have to be honest that it is hard. You find a lot of inaccessibility but if you want to do it you can.

Secondly, leverage technology as much as possible. There is a lot of information available. We have started a Google Group for Science and Engineering students in India. Now that there are other students who are studying Computer Science we have people who can answer questions as we’ve been through all the issues ourselves. When I was in India I used to be on the mailing list of the National Federation for the Blind in US. I would ask scientists questions on how to get some things done. This is a mailing list that others could use.

Thirdly, you have to be really strong. There are going to be all kinds of people who will tell you that you are stupid or that you can’t do something. Don’t listen to them. If something is getting too hard for you then you have to make an intelligent decision whether to continue. Just because you think that you can do it doesn’t mean that you will do it. Think about it for a while before giving up on something.

It is important to be in touch with the NGOs because the student shouldn’t reinvent the wheel as textbooks do not change. My version of these textbooks which I typed for myself is now available with the blind schools for students to avail. There is a fun and comprehensive website called Blindscience.org which is hosted by the National Center for Blind Youth in Science. It has a lot of information about techniques which should be really helpful.

One thing which is required is for people to embrace change. There needs to be more sensitivity on the part of people from institutes like IIT. I think in general too there needs to be more sensitivity. People in India still think that blind people can only be musicians and weavers. I’ve actually had people telling me this which were very surprising, that too by the Director of an institute. Knowledge is not prevalent even now, in spite of the availability of the Internet. If a family did not have a blind child would they really find out how a blind student works at a computer? Probably not, just as I don’t know much about people with other types of disabilities. There are ways of getting the point across through the media or TV shows or movies like Taare Zameen Par without it being a lecture. Information has to be spread in innovative ways. As part of my research project at Stanford last year I took a course on Bollywood and studied how people with disabilities are portrayed in Hindi movies. I was tracing it from 1939 to now. One thing that I found was that in terms of impact now is the time when you actually see the maximum amount of impact or response from the audience. I think this is the perfect time for even them to think about how they can inform people about these topics.

Question: 
In Stanford what are the facilities that help you to get around the challenges which you face?
Answer: 

It’s pretty amazing. First of all there is a separate office called the Office of Accessible Education (OAE). The purpose of this office is to make sure that Stanford students have all that they need to fully participate in every aspect of the university activities on an equal basis. Everything is electronic here. I get several accommodations. I get all of my textbooks in accessible formats. I have a lab and library assistant if I ever need one but I haven’t used one. I can definitely request a test reader/writer if I feel that some classes may be inaccessible even with the kind of technology we have. I haven’t needed one so far. I get to take my exams on the computer. I use something called the Disability Golf Cart Service to get around the campus which is huge. The university has a person who is especially there to tell people about the most recent assistive technology. I am the only blind student at Stanford and so I get to try for a while any new product which comes in, just to see whether it benefits me. I also get to share my feedback with actual developers and technology vendors. They improve the service based on my feedback which makes my life easier.

I took a Chemistry class and I worked with a talking apparatus for the first time which was fun. I loved it. I worked with chemicals which was a lot of fun. I wish that I had been able to do it with my school friends though. We’ll probably get a talking apparatus and go to my school some day!

Question: 
Are there any specific differences in the facilities for people with disabilities between the US and in India?
Answer: 

The first thing is how every American university is supposed to have a separate disability office. That’s not there in India at all. For example, Delhi University has a disabilities office for all colleges within its jurisdiction. You don’t want to set up a certain office just to fulfill a legal provision. You should want to help people and see how many people that each such office can really serve and should set up offices accordingly. I am sure that there are some success stories like the IIMs which do a commendable job, particularly IIM Bangalore. TISS in Mumbai does a fairly good job. Other Indian universities should emulate these institutions. I think a lot has to do with the attitude. We really need to move away from the sympathetic/charity based attitudes. It has to be a rights-based attitude. There has been a lot of discussion that in India it is a rights-based attitude but I don’t think that there is any truth in it. There are technical resources in the US like embossers. I don’t know how we can get that in India. I know that many of the US schools have groups of disability offices which get together and share their resources. That is a really good model that can be adopted in India if they really want to. SRCC in New Delhi bought a lot of the equipment from the US. It would be really cool if rather than one particular college using that equipment exclusively if other colleges also had access to it. It would be awesome if we really try to transition to electronic resources. I don’t know how practical that is especially because many of the professors do not have experience with computers in India. It would be cool if professors could prepare PowerPoint presentations which the student could review. There should be more collaboration between the schools.

It would be awesome if students across colleges could discuss what is working for us in our school. That is what we have been trying to do at Stanford. We have a disabilities group called Power2Act which allows discussions of what works and what needs improvement. I am the President of this group as social advocacy is my other passion.

My project last year, when I was interning with IBM, was about teaching Orientation and Mobility (O&M) Skills to Indian people. The reason for this is in that a city like Delhi there are only one or two mobility instructors and there are tens of thousands of blind people to train.  Most of them do not get the opportunity to get a formal training in mobility. We worked on an Android application that simulated O&M training. The user would know where he is right now and the app would use an algorithm to calculate the most optimum route that the person could take to a certain place. On the way we could detect obstacles as well and tell the user how to avoid them. I had to undergo mandatory orientation and mobility training at Stanford. The instructor was from a blind institute in Palo Alto but my training was arranged by the disabilities office.

Question: 
Do you plan to meet any of your teachers when you go to India and share your experiences with them?
Answer: 

Whenever I go to India I meet my teachers.  I also often interact with teachers who are teaching my friends now who reach out and ask me how I did something. Whenever I have a chance I visit my first special school. They are doing some very cool projects there even now. For example they recently took a bunch of students on an adventure expedition and did some adventure sports. I read their blog and I really liked how some of the adventure institutes were very welcoming to them. There was a mountaineering institute which was more than willing to help them try an activity which they offered. They had all the safety precautions in place and the people who tried the activities had a great time. I told my teacher that they must plan a visit to these places when I am there in India. It will be so much fun to go back to India and meet my friends from the special school and go out with them. I’ve been to Half Moon Bay and Lake Tahoe here in California but I haven’t done a lot of the adventure sports because I am kind of scared. I think that I want to first try it out with special trainers or at least people who actually know how it is done. Hopefully my special school will plan something in December when I will be there. If they do plan something then I will have some experience with them and then I will probably try it out here in the US.

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